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Monday, December 19, 2011 | 8:50am
SOUND OFF: What Are Your Thoughts On Hazing?
Should these ancient initiation rituals be banned in light of the recent death of a FAMU Band Fraternity pledge?
Most if not all of you probably don’t know that I am a member of Black Greek Organization. Some of you might even think that given my views shared here with The Nation that its quite shocking and contradictory. Clearly I became a member of said organization almost 15 years ago and a lot has changed but believe it or not my love for this organization is unwavering. The organization I am talking about Phi Beta Sigma. The name is less important than what it represents.
An investigation is under way following the death of Robert Champion Jr., 26. The drum major in the Florida A&M (FAMU) band died last month in a suspected hazing incident linked to his initiation into a school sanctioned band fraternity. His death has been ruled a homicide.
I TOO was linked to a hazing incident, which at the time was one of the biggest cases of its kind. No one was killed, however injuries both physical and psychological were claimed and some of those involved received jailtime. Naturally my tune changed to a certain degree regarding the now ancient practices which are rooted in Scull & Crossbones, Boule and Masonic organizations. We’ve talked a lot about how the secret societies rituals have long been rumored to be behind National conspiracy. But what about the requirements to get into such organizations? From the lower level fraternity to the Freemasons tradition is at the root.
SOUND OFF: Should organizations be allowed to Haze as a practice of initiation?
FILED IN Editorials, News
Hazing has its place in history from the Military to Greeks to street gangs. Hazing serves a purpose, in most cases, as a rite of passage. As of late, hazing has mutated from the traditional acts I was subjected to, to just cruel and demeaning acts. Can that be attributed to the new generation of kids coming up now being desensitized by video games, or just people saying “It’s my turn to get somebody.” Personally, I am all for hazing, when it is done with respect for the person and the organization.
I thought hazing had been banned in all fraternities/sororities…I personally think it’s kinda silly. I’m not going to have a closer “bond” with anyone because we were hazed together or because dude hazed me…
My wife is in a sorority and she was hazed for weeks while pledging (even though it is banned)…she told me the stupid stuff (as well as some of the dangerous ones)she had to do, and I just shook my head. It couldn’t have been me…..
People need to understand the difference between hazing and initiation. They should NOT be one in the same. If you want to be part of an organization, you should be willing to go through prerequisites. I agree with DaddeJ above that other organizations such as the military have “basic training” (which could be compared to hazing). But the military knows when to stop things before bodily harm and irreversible damage is done.
We have to get away from thinking that punching and kicking someone is the only way to prove their loyalty. It is animal-like behavior that makes a so-called “noble organization” look like an academic street gang.
There have beeen Recruits killed in Bootcamp during acts of hazing.
Being a member of a BGLO, I went thru a “process’ in college in order to become a member of the organization…Although nowadays I understand it better as to why it happened, back then it wasn’t fun in the least. I wasn’t kicked or punched or beaten to within an inch of my life, but we went thru some major trials…In my opinion, it works because it took 6 individuals(my line Brothers) who did not know each other but from chance meetings on campus, to lifelong friends and Brothers to whom we still call, talk, hang out, and attend each others weddings and child births etc to this day…It did bring us closer together because we needed each other to get thru the “process”…Also, all the Big Brothers of the group help out as well…They did not try to kill us while going thru the “process” nor was there any harm to which someone had to be hospitalized…And I still talk to all my Bruhs to this very day…Going thru an initiantion of any kind should not be dangerous nor should anyone die or be hospitalized going thru it…It is meant to teach, organize, and develope its members to be strong leaders in their community and organization…Like DaddeJ said, its those select few individuals that say “It happened to me, now its my turn to get someone” that make it dangerous…
If I didn’t only have two LBs the above would sound exactly like my experience.
Here is a story about Marine Corps Recruit; Recruit Fu (yes, he was Asian).
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Once being introduced by our Drill Instructors, the Drill Intructors quickly began “playing games” with their newly obtained recruits. We all ordered to right face and form a wagon wheel, a line that rotated around the squadbay continuing until one got back to his particular place in the squadbay where he started. It’s purpose was so that items could be distributed and physically accounted for throughout the platoon or so the Drill Intructor could gather information from the recruits, all without the Drill Insturctor actually moving. Or it can be used to “play games” otherwise known as hazing.
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The said purpose of this wagon wheel was so the Drill Instructor could match every recruit and their social security number, with a individual correspoding number, an easy way of indentification if you will. The wagon wheel went round, and the Drill Instruction asked each recruit their name, the spelling of such and assured the identifiction number, matched the recruits name and social. Mine was 19P. “P” for pick-up, I was picked-up from an overcrowded platoon.
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So wagon wheel continued, to finally stop on an short little asian recruit, Recruit Fu.
“What’s Your Name Recruit?” asked Drill Instructor Sargeant Payne.
“RECRUIT FU, SIR!!!” Recruit Fu sounded off, with a very stereotypical asian accent.
“Spell It!” commanded the Drill Instructor.
“F-U SIR!!!” responded Recruit Fu.
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The Drill Instructor’s eyes opened as big as golf balls, staring at Recruit Fu, then all hell broke lose.
“What Did You Say?” said the Drill Instructor. Silly Recruit Fu repeated, “F-U SIR!!!”, stereotypical asian voice and all. The Drill Instructor eyes grew even wider, this time dropping his “Smokey the Bear” campaign cover to the deck.
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Drill Instructor Sargeant Payne, who wasn’t really that much taller than Recruit Fu, suddenly seemed to grow twice as big. Towering over Recruit Fu, yelling and screaming all types of curses words and obsenities, stops and yells, “PUSH!!!”. Recruit Fu drops to the deck and starts rapidly doing push-ups.
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He knocks out what seems to be about million push-ups over the course of ten to fiften minutes, while the Drill Instuctor finished the check he started before Recruit Fu “cursed him out”. The Drill Instrutor goes to Recruit Fu, and yells “FEET!!”. Recruit Fu springs to feet snapping to the position of attention. The Drill Instructor asks,
“So, do you want to spell your name now?” Recruit Fu repsonds, “YES SIR!!!” skivvy shirt soaked with sweat.
“So go ahead.” Commanded the Drill Instructor.
“F-U SIR!!!” replied Recurit Fu.
“AHHH!!!” The Drill Instructor yelled,storming off into the Drill Instructor house (really just a room the on duty Drill Instructor slept).
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Shortly, two other Drill Instructors came out the “house”. They approached Recruit Fu, and one asked Recruit Fu his name and to spell it, Recruit Fu replied same as before. Soon after Recruit Fu had two Drill Instructors bearing down on him yelling cursing and telling him to PUSH. After about five minutes of push-ups and screamig and yelling the two Drill Instructors went into the Drill Instructor house, leaving Recruit Fu, who was still doing push-ups. Soon after our Senior Drill Instructor comes out and orders Recruit Fu on his feet.
“What’s your name recruit?” he asks calmly.
“Recruit Fu, Sir.” replies Recruit Fu totally out of breath to the point where he was shaking.
“Spell it, Recruit.” Commanded The Senior Drill Instructor
“F-U, Sir.” Responded Recruit Fu.
The Senior Drill Instructor let out an audible chuckle and commanded the recruit back to his place on line and exited back into the Drill Instructor House to share in the laugh with the other Drill Instructors.
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The objective of this “game” was to show that sometimes, more time than many in the Marines, you will be told to do something down right obsurd over a misunderstanding or miscommunication. And sometimes, more time than many in the Marines, you will have to grin, sweat it out, and bear it.
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Stuff like this happened just about everyday in Marine Corps Bootcamp. Certain times it was a team building excerise, and sometimes it was to amuse the Drill Insrutctors, certain times it was to make one person or the platoon suffer for a misdeed. Ask A Drill Instructor they will say it is to break you down so the Corps can build you back up. There have been recruits killed during “games” that went too far. I say as long as the there is a lesson to be learned, and noone get hurt, I say it’s okay. But then again, usually you dont know that a person could take a certain amount of pressure or stress (physical/ mental), until they have already snapped, then it’s too late.
Brings back memories! I remember being a recruit and being that my MOS (military for job) was infantry, I “played” some of the most uncalled for “games” during boot, lol. I’m a West Coast, MCRD/Camp Pendleton Marine aka Hollywood Marine, lol. During a uniform fitting, this one stupid ass recruit, who wouldnt “unfuck” himself, just couldnt get it together, so, D.I SGT Gonzales thought it was necessary, since we couldnt “unfuck” this recruit, to put 8 of us, inside a porter potty to “teach” us a lesson, lol, 15 shit and piss laced minutes, we “learned” our lesson and gave this recruit a blanket party after taps (taps is lights out). That recruit learned his lesson,but got himself put in RSP (Recruit Seperation Platoon)and we never heard from again. Another one of my memorable boot camp memories involved the same D.I, during rifle qualification, his “Lil brother”, as the other D.I’s reffered to him as, fucked up, so, he had reruit Gonzales, myself and another recruit, do “fish out of water”(fish out of water is when u lay on ur belly and belly crawl wihtout using ur hands or legs, blowing dirt into your face) up a small, dirty slope, lol, “games”. This is my “favorite” boot camp moment, after being the “Guide”(Guide is the leader of the platoon), I messed up on a drill movement, I got shit canned, they had me doing push ups on the parade deck/grinder, went back to the squad bay(recruit living quarters) and had me doing more push ups and monkey fuckers for about an hour and a half and all that, according to the D.I was for “shits and giggles” and so I would “learn” proper drill movements, lol, sure. That same D.I, guess he didnt get any pussy, out of nowhere started screaming at me, telling me, “I swear on my daughters soul Garcia, that you wont graduate with this platoon!”, I looked at this asshole and laughed my ass off, this of course, earned me a trip to all the beautiful “pits”(pits are sections of dirt in which we do physical training) around Pendleton and according to this D.I I would never amount to anything in the Corps. Years later I ran into this man, he was surpised that I moved up in rank so quick(at the time I was one of the youngest Sergeants ever in the history of Weapons Co. 2nd BTN 1st Marines), a Scout Sniper and a squad/section leader, I can honestly say that his and the rest of the D.I’s bullshit games made me mentally tougher, but, thats just me.
I personally think that all hazing should be stopped. I remember hearing on the CBS News years ago about a hazing incident in which some guys were hazed in a damp, wet basement, & one guy died, if I remember correctly. Hazing should be stopped. It should’ve never been started, if you ask me. PEACE!!!
As a former Marine, “hazing” is a part of what being a Marine is all about. I dont agree with some of the methods that are used, but, it all depends on how mentally tough you are, if you have thin skin, then dont join, simple as that. The Marine Corps prides itself on being physically fit and mentally tough. The lower your rank, the more shit you have to put up with. I was an Infantry Marine, I and the rest of my fellow grunts had to be more mentally and physically tougher than the rest, thats why “hazing” and playing “games” came with the job, you cant have a mentally weak person leading Marines into a battlefield. A majority of these “games” were uncalled for, they degrated you and etc, but hey, like the old Marine recruiting poster says, “We didnt promise you a rose garden.”, to what my fellow Marine wrote about recruit Fu, he knew what he was getting himslef into when he joined the Corps, who knows what his job was and yea, Drill Instructors are the biggest dicks out there, but, everything they do, wether right or wrong has a reason behind it. I’m sure frat boys know the drill when they join, but, when assholes go over board and cause death, different story, everything has its limits. That’s one thing that my Scout Sniper unit prided itself on, after you became a full fledged Marine, the “games” stopped and you were treated like a grown man, I cant speak on behalf of the rest of the Corps or military, I dont know the level of respect they have for each other, all I know is that some organizations find it necessary to “haze” potential members/recruits.
Totally agree after MCT (Marine Combat Training) all that games shit ended for me. I have walked away from several senior enlisted and at least two officers who tried to play games. What the fuck were they going to do write me up for not playing games? And usually I would walk away and go over their heads for counseling. So, whomever they would tell would already know what was going on.
Exactly. Some of these pricks dont let that boot camp garbage go and a majority of these assholes pull rank on you to justify the bullshit they pull. When I moved up in rank, I picked up the good habbits and never followed the bad. I led by exmaple and I held every Marine to the highest of standards and if I heard about them playing games or hazing another Marine, best believe they payed for it, 20 mile Dress Blues run and no libo for 4 months.
We still haze in the military after boot camp, but call it tradition. “Tacking” on rank is still the most time honored form throughout all branches that still happens today. In my 18 years of service I’ve had many stripes tacked on, and proud to have it happen. I worked hard for every stripe I’ve earned. As for the other shit, like the young troop in Afghanistan that commited suicide due to extreme hazing, needs to be stopped. As I said before…be respectful of the person and the organnization